This blog assignment has two parts. Please make sure that you address ALL of the questions in your posted response to recieve credit. Your post is due NO LATER than Monday, December 14th. No exceptions! 1. Listen to the NPR (National Public Radio) segment "In Character" segment (11 mins) and read the short article found on the same page. What are the main points of both Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage? Do you agree or disagree with them? As a result of having "no sense of teen culture" in the late 1940s and early 50s, as Savage claims, would this novel be as culturally defining if it was published today? You must use specific references to the NPR segment in your response. What character from modern pop culture (books, movies, television, music) is the Holden Caulfield of your generation? Why? What connections do you see between Holden and your modern-day counterpart?
2. Read the Anne Trubek article below. What part of Trubek's argument do you find most (or least) convincing? Based on what you've read, do you believe that this novel should remain a staple of high school literature in America? Why or why not? Be sure to defend your ideas with specific details and textual evidence from the article (i.e. use direct quotes from the article to support your response.)
Please remember to write in complete sentences (no abbreviations or textspeak!), edit and proofread your responses, and sign your name on your post. DUE DATE: MONDAY, DEC.14TH BY MIDNIGHT.
1. Tobias Wolf was alive when Catcher in the Rye was written he was 6, he read it when he was 15. Wolf relates to the book especially when it comes to Pency Prep because he himself went to a school just like that. He feels it is hard to see Holden as an adult. He thinks as he you get older and you read the book again you see it differently. Stephanie Savage feels in that Holden is trapped between the world of being a child and the adult world. In the novel she doesn’t see Holden coming out as a man but she sees him as coming out alive, not a different person but just that he made it out alive. I agree both with Wolf and Savage. Savage says in the late 1940s and early 50s nobody had much sense of teenage culture. I believe the novel would not be as culturally defining if it was published today because in the 50s adults believe that it made teens rebel against their parents, and compare The Catcher and the Rye to a lot of other books focused on teenagers have no comparison! I believe for me the Holden Caulfield of my generation in the book The Perks of Being a Wildflower, in this novel the main character goes through struggles with school, friends, home life, and girls just like Holden Caulfield.
ReplyDelete2. The part of Anne Trubek’s article that I find the least convincing is how Trubek believes just because the book is old, that the value of the book is not as important. I believe that the novel should still be taught in high school because not only are some of us able to relate to his character we are also able to learn about history (the first coming of age book!). We get to learn what people thought about the book in the 50s and we get to form out own opinion about if we like it or not, just like many adults have their opinion about the book! Although, yes, the book is old there are someways that I think everyone can relate to Holden’s character.
-Ashley Millar
aha
ReplyDelete1. The main points of both Savage and Wolf, are that the book was huge and popular, and was the first true teen angst or comming of age book that really showed teenagers in a different light. I agree with the statement that it was the first true teen angst book, and i also think it was more culturally defining back then, then it is say, today. Today there are many many more books about teen angst, and should be brought up to read instead of Catcher. Yes, it was a great book, and still is a great book, but for this generation, a new book should be found to paint our teenage generation, instead of that in the 1950's. As much as i dislike the series, the Twilight series are in my opinion a large teen angst genre. for example, the main characters Bella and Edward are in love, but cant be together based on Edward being a vampire, and there being dangers behind that. even with a small knowledge of the book, it can be seen that the characters are two good Teen angst representatives for the generation we live in today.
ReplyDelete2. I found a few parts convincing, and again some not so convincing. i think the one that stood out to me most was how just because a book is old, means it is out of date and can no longer be of as much value. which is wrong. classes today are still dedicated to older literature, and if they were just irrelevant and weren't needed, then the classes wouldn't be happening. Although the book is still a huge teen angst book, i believe it shouldn't be a part of our literature anymore. not because of its age, but because of how many more books are out there now. So much has changed since the book was written, and are in books out there today. "Indeed, there are many tales of adolescent angst out there, and they all, it seems, need a wink to Salinger to claim a place in this genre." This only shows that Salingers book was the first teen angst book, not the only. and others should be given their place in a classroom literature.
-TRAVIS JENKS-
-Period 3-
1. Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage both have pretty similar opinions about Holden in The Catcher in the Rye. But Tobias Wolf can really relate to him on a deeper level because he himself went to a school like Pency prep so he knows how it is. Stephanie Savage thinks that Holden wants badly to be an adult but he just can’t be there because he is still a child. He is at an awkward stage in his life that he is just kind of stuck in. Stephanie Savage says how in most books she sees them coming out a man at the end but she cannot see this with Holden, she said that she saw him coming out as an adult instead. Both of them cannot see Holden as an adult because they can’t picture him growing up and becoming an adult with all the problems he has. I agree with both Stephanie and Tobias because they both bring up very good points about this, I think that Holden is stuck in the middle and every time he thinks he can get out of it he just pulls himself right back on in and has to start over again. I also think that he is a big winer about everything and he needs to suck it up. I don’t think that this book would be as culturally defining as it is today because there s much more of a teen culture now then there was back then so people wouldn’t be as concerned about this and make it such a big deal. The person that I feel is most like Holden Caulfield is August from the movie august rush. He is not a trouble maker like Holden but he is kind of alone like Holden is and He is stuck between adult and childhood, he has no parents so he has to do many things on his own and figure them out.
ReplyDelete2. Her most convincing part happened right at the beginning when she said “Sure, J.D. Salinger’s novel was edgy and controversial when teachers first put it on their syllabi. But that was 50 years ago. Today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet.” That is said in the first paragraph. I think that this book should not be still taught in high school because it has been taught for so long that it does not appeal to everyone like it used to. “”In 1961, The New York Times Book Review credited the popularity of Catcher with the “shock and thrill of recognition”” This says how great it was back in the day but now no one is writing about it or really caring about it
- Austin Dyche, Period. 1
1.The main point of theirs was that Holden was the first real person that represented teens.
ReplyDeleteBefore him, they were not represented in any way. They also said that as they got older,
they sort of felt sorry for Holden, because he didn't seem like he would be able to cope in
the world when he became an adult. They said this because he was mad at all of the adults
for being phonies. It's hard to say who would be the modern-day version of Holden, but if I
had to pick someone, it would be the main character of this book called Raiders Night. I
would pick this kid because he has to struggle with alot of decisions on what he should do.
That is the only person I can think of that is similar to Holden.
2.One thing that she had to say about Catcher was, "When it was first assigned, Catcher’s
purpose in the curriculum was to offer students a contemporary, cool alternative to, say,
something lengthy and dense like David Copperfield." I would have to agree with this,
becuase I think that kids need something that differs from the typical books that kids
usually have to read. This keeps kids interessted in reading, even if it is short, and a little crude. She also said, "Its main appeal to students, she argued, is simply that the
young like to read about the young, prefer short books, and ones without too many references to other books." This may be somewhat true, but you need to have a book like this to draw kids in and become more avid readers. Not every kid wants to read a Dicken's novel in their
spare time, but Catcher is something they will read because of it's "relatability". This
book will get kids to read other books and hopefully reading is something that becomes
something they like, instead of something they have to do.
-Manny Zozaya, Period 1
1. The main point of the NPR segment is that most teenagers at that time could really relate to Holden's character and also that holden is one of the first to represent teens in the late 1940's. Tobias wolf talks about how he feels like he knows holden because he had at the time the very same problems as holden. Tobias read the book when he was fifteen and felt connected because he went to a school like Pency prep, but when tobias got older he started to change his view of holden and starts to feel sorry for holden. Stephanie's opinion of holden is very similar to Tobias she believes that she an relate to him in a way but she also say's in the segment that in the late 1940's and 50's there really was no teen culture back then and that holden sort of is the first to represent the teens. Stephanie also talks about how she sympathizes with holden because after each book she reads the character comes out a man but with holden she feels that through the whole book he is dead but in the end he comes out alive. If this book was published today i don't think that it would be as cultural defining as it was back then because teen problems now are different from what they were back then in the 50's. In the segment Stephanie talks about how teens weren't defined back then so if it was published now it wouldn't be that much of a shock. If I had to pick a modern day holden then i would pick Darren Shan from this book i read, this character is very similar to holden because through the whole book he wants to hold on to his childhood and his innocence but he knows that he can't.
ReplyDelete2. I think that when Trubek is talking about Catcher in the Rye and how when it first came out it was edgy but now its lost it's shock it once had and I agree with this. When this book came out it was something different then all the other books and it was shocking to most people and a lot of people could sympathize with this character, but now there are bigger problems for teenagers and its harder to relate to holden and now they just see him as a whiney baby. I think that this book shouldn't be taught in school because as Trubek talks about in her article this book is old and it doesn't have the same value and lesson to be learned as it once had. I think that there are other books that address the situations that teenagers are having now and would be easier to relate to then holden in catcher in the Rye.
-Courtney Ramstetter, Period 3
1.The main point of Tobias Wolf was that he was in a school just like Pency prep and he could really connect with Holden on
ReplyDeletea more personal level. Both Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage knew about the war against the adult world and what it was
like. They find it extremely sad how Holden seems to see every person as phony and that its really sad how he look at
himself so low and almost at a sucicidal stage. You can see how much pain he was not only with the world but with
himself as well. They see Holden is living in a trapped stage between adult hood and childhood. They call Holden the "first
stage of teen" because before this there was really no teen culture. Holden supported this teen culture that had never been
reprecented before. I agree with both Tobias and Stephanie because I think that Holden is trapped inbetweeen childhood and
adult hood. He tries pulling himself out of this stage that he is so badly trapped in but he seems to get pulled back in
everytime and then he is just back to where he started. To me Holden is a big winer about anything and everything. He
comes off as a rich crybaby. I don't believe that this bool would be as culturally defining today as it was then just
because the "teenage life" has changed so much. Its nothing like how it used to be. There seems to be much more of a teen
culture today then there was. If we were to write a book about today and somehow send it back in time they would freak out
with how teens are. Everything is very, very different then Holden's days. I just cant see people being as concerend about
the teen culture and everything with The Catcher in The Rye now as they were back then. If you have ever read "The Perks
of Being a Wallflower," you could relate with me. Holden is a lot like the person in this book. Some connections are
They both are going throughrough times in their lives such as school, friens, deaths, struggles in life, home life,
as well as girls. They both seem to feel very alone, like they just dont fit in with the rest of the world.
2.The part that i found least convincing is how Trubek believes that the value of the book isn't important because
of how old it is. This novel should be taught in high school because it kind of opens are eyes as to how things were
back then to how things are now. It shows us how things have changed and just makes us come to realize how "our teen
life is" to how "their teen life was." This book may be pretty old and out dated but I'm sure that people could
possibly relate with Holden to some scence.
-Amanda Castaneda
period 3
1.The main point of Tobias Wolf was that he was in a school just like Pency prep and he could really connect with Holden on
ReplyDeletea more personal level. Both Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage knew about the war against the adult world and what it was
like. They find it extremely sad how Holden seems to see every person as phony and that its really sad how he look at
himself so low and almost at a sucicidal stage. You can see how much pain he was not only with the world but with
himself as well. They see Holden is living in a trapped stage between adult hood and childhood. They call Holden the "first
stage of teen" because before this there was really no teen culture. Holden supported this teen culture that had never been
reprecented before. I agree with both Tobias and Stephanie because I think that Holden is trapped inbetweeen childhood and
adult hood. He tries pulling himself out of this stage that he is so badly trapped in but he seems to get pulled back in
everytime and then he is just back to where he started. To me Holden is a big winer about anything and everything. He
comes off as a rich crybaby. I don't believe that this bool would be as culturally defining today as it was then just
because the "teenage life" has changed so much. Its nothing like how it used to be. There seems to be much more of a teen
culture today then there was. If we were to write a book about today and somehow send it back in time they would freak out
with how teens are. Everything is very, very different then Holden's days. I just cant see people being as concerend about
the teen culture and everything with The Catcher in The Rye now as they were back then. If you have ever read "The Perks
of Being a Wallflower," you could relate with me. Holden is a lot like the person in this book. Some connections are
They both are going throughrough times in their lives such as school, friens, deaths, struggles in life, home life,
as well as girls. They both seem to feel very alone, like they just dont fit in with the rest of the world.
2.The part that i found least convincing is how Trubek believes that the value of the book isn't important because
of how old it is. This novel should be taught in high school because it kind of opens are eyes as to how things were
back then to how things are now. It shows us how things have changed and just makes us come to realize how "our teen
life is" to how "their teen life was." This book may be pretty old and out dated but I'm sure that people could
possibly relate with Holden to some scence.
-Amanda Castaneda
period 3
1. Some of the main points that Stephanie Savage made was how Holden was trapped between worlds. He was one of the first American, and original, teens to show up. Teens didn't have a culture back then. Savage also makes the point that Holden is the original teen because we didn't see him grow up. He is almost like a teen forever. Tobias Wolf pointed out Holden's terror of the adult world. I agree with these points. Holden was one of the first teens and he was terrified about entering the adult world. I don't think that this would be as significant if it were published today. The teen culture is more defined than it was 60 years ago. Savage made the point of saying thatthe teen culture began in the 1940s. In my opinion this would be just another teen book. I believe that Edward Cullen is the Holden Caulfield of our generation. I think that both of these men are troubled and are searching for an answer. Also, many teens looked up to Holden, as many teens look up to Edward. Some adults did not like Holden and his story. Just like Catcher and The Rye, some adults do not like Edward and his story.
ReplyDelete2. The most convincing part of Anne Trubek's arguement is there are newer books that have the same relatability as Catcher. I don't believe that Catcher should be a staple of the high school curriculum. I personally don't see the merit of the book. I did not get much out of the story at all. I thought that Holden had a problem with everyone he met except Allie and Phoebe. He was too obsessed with phonies. I also agree that Catcher "lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet." It just isn't as good as it used to be. It is like when a song is overplayed on the radio, and you just don't like it anymore. I think that the question that really makes the point is the one twoards the end of the article: "Still, after half a century of new, equally “relatable” coming-of-age-stories, don’t some of Holden’s younger siblings deserve the end-of-the-year spot in sophomore English?"
Samantha Mauzy P.1
1). Both Stephanie Savage and Tobias Wolf liked the book, but both of their views were very different from each other’s. Stephanie thought “The Catcher in the Rye” was an amazing book. The book was such a revelation to her on how there could be books and voices like that in literature. Her main point was that Holden was a troubled teen going through a crazy breakdown in his life, but at the end of the book he doesn’t come out as a man, but he comes out of this journey alive. Holden lived when teenagers hadn’t really been invented yet; instead teenagers had just started to build a culture back then, when the book was made. Tobias Wolf thought the book was sweet and reverse, he says that he liked it so much; he’ll never forget that book. But his main point about it was that his first time reading it was funny, but when he read it a second time it was sort of sad. The humor of the novel had started to unravel in Holden’s pain near the end. I agree with them, but Tobias’s point more, because I could relate to what he was saying about the book. When I started to read the book, it was really funny. But then through the whole thing especially near the end that the true humor of the novel had started to unravel in Holden’s pain. As a result of giving “no sense of teen culture” in the late 1940’s and early 50’s, as savage claims, this novel would not only be as culturally defining but more defining, if it was published today, because the culture of teens has been more developed now then when the book was made, and there’s a real sense of how teens are now then back then when the book was made.
ReplyDelete2). The most part of Trubek’s argument that I found least convincing is how if the value of a book is old, it really isn’t considered to be that important. But that’s not true because of a lot of high school literature such, as Shakespeare is very old, but it is still important to literature. Actually the more old the value of the book is in literature, the more attractive is starts looking to history, and most highs school teachers would want to teach something of literature that was found important to literature’s history like Shakespeare, to see why it was important back then, and if the values of it are still considered to be important now.
-Norin A.
I'd have to say I agree with Stephanie Savage. She thought Holden was a crybaby and just needed to suck it up. There's times I can simpathize with him but not very often. The times he talks about his dead brother Allie is when I feel his pain. It's hard loosing someone especially that close to you. I don't think Catcher In the Rye would be culturally defining today. I say this because worse things are going on nowdays instead of when Holden was a teenager. Teens are actually going out and having sex not just talking about it. Binge drinking is the new thing. Holden did it seldomly. To tell you the truth I think that any teenager who has been through hardtimes such as Holden is a modern day Holden. I can't pick one specfically because there's just too many. The connection I see between the modern day counter-part and Holden are that more teens now days are being depressed and thinking about suicide. They just want to give up, like it's not worth living anymore.
ReplyDeleteI think I find almost all of it non-convincing. I say this because no matter how old the book or the setting is you can still learn and relate to the book. For instance this book was written in 1950 but I still connected to Holden in some ways. Like the feeling of loss. I think everyone has felt that before. When saying the book shouldn't be taught it upsets me a little bit because there's more books out there that shouldn't be taught. Like Romeo and Juliet, that's not relivent to any modern teen. The only point to that book was to express the style of writting used in the time period. I do belive that the book should remain avaliable to read in high schools. I say this because it is a novel that relates to the age groups of teenagers. Many teens can connect with Holden. It also shows the way we speak. Using slang nowdays is a big thing. I think reading the book will help teens understand the way the real world works. Holden sees how flunking out of school can mess up your life. Well there's alot of that going on now days. The book has alot of reality behind it.
-Kala Travis
Period 3
I agree with Tobias Wolf. He see Holden the same way I do. I think the book would be culturally defining if it was published today. Things are happening all around to teens like they did in the book. Flunking out of school, relationship problems ect. I think it just relates to teens all around. It's like Holden is speaking for all of the teenagers of the time. As for the modern Holden Caulfield of my generation, I'd say it's any teenager who has ever felt lonely, like they weren't needed or didn't know their place in the world yet.
ReplyDeleteI don't find the article convincing because I believe that the book should still be taught no matter what. I say this because Catcher in the Rye relates to teens now days too. If you think about it, every teen has or will face some of the problems that Holden Caulfield did. Having social problems, attitude problems, and academic problems is something every teen faces just like Holden.
Alyssa Headley
Period 1
1.Tobias Wolf was alive when Catcher in the Rye was written , he read it when he was 15.Tobias went to a school like Pency prep so he knows how it is.Stephanie Savage thinks that Holden wants badly to be an adult but he just can’t be there.Stephanie Savage feels in that Holden is trapped between the world of being a child and the adult world. I agree with both Stephanie and Tobias because they both bring up very good points about this because there like that too. don’t think that this book would be as culturally defining as it is today because there s much more of a teen culture now then there was back then so people wouldn’t be as concerned about this and make it such a big deal.
ReplyDelete2.Trubek believes just because the book is old, that the value of the book is not as important.I believe that the novel should still be taught in high school because it is a good book. it teaches us about back then.
Adam Hinchliff
period 3
Wolf and Savage are both really similar. Wolf says that he was in the same situation as Holden was. He said that he didn’t really like the school that he went to as in the same case Holden did not either. For Savage she says that she thinks Holden couldn’t ever come out of his childhood. She thinks so because never in the book he acted like an adult at all. I do agree with these two because back then there were no kids like Holden as a result in running away and going on his own and finding his way in life. If this book was published today I don’t think that it would be popular because now in the world some kids care. In the NPR they say that Holden wanted to commit suicide there was probably really no one that was going to do that. Maybe who knows. But now days you ave people wanting to run away from school and killing there selves as they don’t care. If there was some one I could pick to be like Holden it would be the kid from holes the book. I think so because he really has no friends and he hates the camp that he is in and Holden doesn’t like pencey prep.
ReplyDelete2. In this reading there are parts that I find convincing and some not. The part that I don’t is that she doesn’t believe that the book doesn’t deserve a top spot in novels. In which I do because it explains what life was back then and how much it has changed now. The part that I do find convincing is that she thinks these books should not be read in schools any more. She says that. American Criticism was bad back then and even worse now. So books should be not read anymore because maybe people want to read what teen age life is now.
_Dom Vargas
1. The main points of Tobias Wolf and stephanie wolf are this book is a revolation. And that this book shows how hard the transition of going from a child to becoming an adult is really tough. letting go of that innocence and trying to protect it is hard. The also talk about how Holden feels trapped. And theres a sense of urning. i totally agree with them. Gaining the strength to transition this part of your life is hard. And a lot of people could relate this to their own lives. If this novel was published today, then i don't think it would be as culturally defining as it was in the 1950's. Today kids have different issues.yeah some are still the same as the book. but people today have differetnt outlooks on the issues teens are going through today. Like Stephanie Savage was saying, that was a time of when elvis was about to float to the surface, so its all about the influences at the point the teens are living. i dont really know a good example of a modern day Caulfield. It would have to be someone who sees life as not fair, and full of people you can't really trust. also someone who doesnt have many friends and sort of has a negative attitude about alot of things.
ReplyDelete2. I found that the part of Trubeks arguement was most convincing when she talked about "In the 19th century, a bildungsroman showed the growing maturity and self-awareness of a young person." and now in modern day its "bildungsroman is more like, as a friend puts it: “Horny plus bored minus transportation divided by the whole of one’s interior life, multiplied by an inverse ratio of miles to a city or a place where there is anything at all to do.” From what I've read i don't believe this should remain a staple of highschool literature in America. yeah its a classic and may seemed like a big deal at the time. But now there are so many other things that can compare to a modern day teen. "Its main appeal to students, he argued, is simply that the young like to read about the young, prefer short books, and ones without too many references to other books."
HANNAH FARRER. per. 03
1. The main direct points of Wolf and Savage are that it was very hard to see a 17 year old have a nervous breakdown, and to have a war against phony adults. He is very afraid of growing up, and both of them cannot see Holden as an adult because he will always be the first unique, culturally divided teenager ever published. They also mention how sad this book is when he talks about Allie, and how that had a huge effect on how he looked at things. I agree that this was the first book written about teenage culture, but I don’t agree that Holden was the first wave of teenagers. I think that it doesn’t make sense to compare every teenager to a childish, immature, suicidal brat because not every teen was like this back then, and now. I think the person who represents Holden now is I guess all of the people you think of right when you hear Holden, or catcher in the rye.
ReplyDelete2. The part that had me convinced was “Today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet. But it is still ubiquitously taught even though many newer novels of adolescence are available.” This is true because very few teens can relate to this book; unlike they did 50 years ago. So why not let us read newer novels that can relate to teens now instead of when people were just starting to understand about teens.
Valerie Cruz---period 1
1. well tobias wolf was in the same situation as he was at a prep school and he read the book at that school and he got so wrapped up in it and he can relate to the book because he went through the same thing and he says he is in a war against the adult world. he thinks the book is also very sad as well as it is funny. Stephanie thinks that he wants to be an adult so bad but is trapped in the child life and it depresses him. she says that he was the model for the "teen" life that was soon to come and tries to pass off as an adult. they both agree that it is hard to imagine him as an adult because he is changing so much in the book and they cant imagine what his real state of mind would be as he gets older.
ReplyDelete2. anne is arguing that the book is boring, which is very true it is a boring book because it seemed slow to me and there wasn't a lot of parts in the book that made me wanna keep reading it actually made me wanna read faster to get it over with. despite the fact that its boring to me it should still be taught in high schools. i know that alot of kids enjoy this bool and alot of great lessons can come from the book but pulling it from the english criteria is just dumb.. its a book its not gonna change anybody in anyway or teach kids to rebel against parents its just a quick read. even in the article it talks about how many people love the book and love J.D's style of writing.
Garrett Dunkelberger
P.3
After listening I do not think that if this book was published today that it would have the same impact. In today’s world there is so much out there that it is tough for something to have a substantial impact. This book raises a whole bunch of teenage issues that are most likely all out there today written a lot better. This book being the first of its kind in writing style would not matter if it was published today. Other things, tons of other things have most likely been written the same way. As for the Holden of today I can’t think of anyone. No one is as dull as Holden. Today just about everything is made to be this big grand idea of it all. Holden is the negative witch I guess can be elated to say the “bad guys” in films and in books, but there is no clear connection of any character in today’s time and Holden.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the article that Catcher in The Rye doesn’t really have the “shock” in today’s classrooms. Just about everything has been done or heard of now. This book might have had an impact when it was first published but it doesn’t bring up anything someone who doesn’t live under a rock hasn’t heard about. I don’t find any of the articles convincing after the first paragraph. Just like this book I lost interest after hearing what it was about. I don’t think Catcher in the Rye should be read in class, I feel the same about every single boring book that us students are forced to read to get through school.
Trevor Brungard
1. The main point of Tobias Wolf was that Holden is a very sad guy. He is alone, and the most tragic thing that’s happened to him was when his little brother Allie died. Stephanie Savage’s point was that it was really tough for Holden (and in general, all teenagers) to be stuck in between a world of children and adults. I agree more with Tobias Wolf because he makes a real point; not all teenagers are the same. For some people, their teenage years were the best times of their lives. Since there is a result of having “no sense of teen culture” in the late 1940’s and early 50’s, this novel would definitely be culturally defining if it was published today because there was not so much open rebellion back then, but there is now. It would not be much of a shock to readers today. Teenagers were basically not “invented” before Holden tells his story, according to Savage. An example from modern pop culture is a book called “Gifted” by Marilyn Kaye. A girl named Tracey is sad and depressed because her parents ignore her after they had seven twin girls. She feels left out and as if people do not notice her.
ReplyDelete2. The part of Trubek’s argument that I find most convincing is where she mentions that today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet. Based on what I’ve read, I do believe that this novel should remain a staple of high school literature in America. I don’t see why it can’t be; it’s just a classic like, for example, Romeo and Juliet. It does make a good point that it was fifty years ago, and we should move on, but it was how all these other related books started.
Keeley Drozda, period 1.
I think the main point of Tobias Wolff and Stephanie Savage is that the way people view Holden Caulfield and the Catcher in the Rye as a general has changed over time. When they were young they felt bad for Holden and could relate to him but now that they are older they see him much differently. They see his story as sad and depressing because he is lost in this world between adolescence and adulthood. To a certain extent I could agree with them. I find it sad that he is in this place but it doesn't make me feel sad. Also I can't say that I sympathize with how he feels. To be blunt, I think he's just a whinny pain in the ass. Savage says there was "no sense of teen culture" in the 50's and to a certain extent I agree. Teens today are much more expressive and make their presence known. I think that if this book was published today it wouldn't have near the effect it did then. With what is being published these days, the Catcher in the Rye seems minute. It's hard to say who the Holden Caulfield of today would be. While we have many idols and important figures that have changed the way we view things, they were much different. To me, I would have to say Tupac. He was possibly the most brilliant poet and rapper. While he was also controversial, he kept it real and spoke the truth about society and having a rough life instead of pretending it wasn't there like most people tend to do. He spoke up and gave people who went through what he did a voice and although he was shot and killed, his legacy lives on.
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure how I feel about Anne Trubek’s article. While she makes several good points in saying that this story is no longer relevant to our teen society and there are several other more relatable stories for our youth. I agree that at the time of its publication the Cather in the Rye was something that had never been done before. But that was 50 years ago. Our teen culture has changed dramatically and no longer finds the relevance of this story. There have been a number of publications since then that are even more potent and have become much more relatable to us. If the point of reading the catcher in the Rye as part of high school curriculum is still what it was in the 60’s, then education is way behind and we need to update our reading list again. However, if reading the Catcher in the Rye is now more to read something that was once a huge part of American culture, then by all means the schools can keep it around.
All in all, I think the book was boring and Holden is quite pathetic, but then again so are many of the other books on our school’s reading list.
1.Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage main point is how the book “Catcher in the Rye” was so popular and how the character Holden lives his life in way that is different. But Stephanie doesn’t think he is really different just by the way he thinks and how he thinks of people. I agree of what they think about Holden because that time teenagers didn’t really live the life of today. Now as a result in having “no sense of teen culture” the novel would not be very culturally defining if it was published today. I think this because in that time period, adults believed that it made teens go against their parents and go against who care for them. The character Holden Caulfield of my generation from the book So Be It, in this book the main character struggles in life and school, not having friends. Some connections I have between me and Holden is struggling in school and work. Even though Holden doesn’t work, it still part of life that he struggles from.
ReplyDelete2.What I found most convincing was how a book so old is not so popular but it can no longer be as much value. In the reading I think that this should be part of our literature because many books have changed since then and it would be more interesting to read and learn more about old books.
-Sabrina Dreiling
1.Some of the main points made by Mr. Wolf and Ms. Savage are that they both saw Holden as a foundation of a teen culture. Mr. Wolf read the book as a teenager when it was a relatively new book, and he liked Holden's character. Ms. Savage sees Holden as a boy who is lost and that he was and still is a character that can be related to. When both asked if they could see Holden as an adult they both responded that they couldn't because he was only his character and that many people couldn't see him changing. Somebody famous that is kind of a rebel or at least used to be would be Lindsey Lohan or Brittany Spears. They both were odd balls in the media and always had problems with their family, media, or the law. This book would not be as effective as it was in the 1950's because like the radio show mentioned it came months even weeks before Elvis emerged. I believe everything would have stayed the same even if the book wasn't published.
ReplyDelete2.In Anne Trubek article, I find that when she mentions that it was once a very radical and shocking book in the 1950's, that it wouldn't have the same effect as it would now. Even before reading the article I do think that the novel should be taught in school, but not in a Modern Lit class. It can be taught in an American Lit class, but like I said not Modern. Like Anne Trubek mentioned, Holden starts the book off by mentioning “David Copperfield” when kids now should be mentioning Holden Caulfield. This novel is surely on its way out the door, thus it shouldn't be taught anymore.
Alex Vallejos
PER. 3
1. On NPR both Savage and Wolf said that he was afraid of change and is scared of becoming an adult. I agree about that but I don’t agree how Savage can just say that there was no teen culture in the 40s and 50s because that’s where it all started. After the war teens started to get jobs and go to drive-ins. Today if this book was written I think that many people would say the same things that they said about “Catcher in the Rye”. Teens haven’t changed a whole lot from back then; teens just had more freedom to do things in the 50s and 60s. Today I would say that teens are still never recognized or never have a true life to be a teen because there are too many rules regulating all that teens can do. Wolf said that every time he read “Cather in the Rye”, it felt like he was reading a different book each time. I think this because as people get older they change and see Holden as being a teen that goes against everyone and rebels. As a teen I see this as a book that speaks for all of us teens who feel lost in this world.
ReplyDelete2. In the article, Trubek believes just because the book is old, that the value of the book is not as important. I don’t agree with what was said because teens today still go against the law and go through sometimes where we don’t know who we are. This book should still be read through out high schools because it’s a book to where all teens can relate to. Trubek doesn’t know what he was talking about because he is an adult. If he would have read it when he was a teen and only then I guarantee that he would be on the other side of the fence. “If Salinger needed to acknowledge Dickens in 1951, today any new adolescent coming-of-age tale must go through ‘all that Holden Caulfield crap.” I agree that teens would say that it’s like Holden Caulfield’s life. But crap? No it’s not crap because it’s something that teens do go through and if not read deeply then the point just goes by. I’m glad I read this book because I now know that there is a strong teen voice that can speak for all of us.
-Kelsey Coonts
Courtney Keil
ReplyDeletePeriod 3
1. Some of the main points of Tobias Wolf and Stephanie Savage are that Holden sort of made the teen culture. They say that Holden was living in the time before Elvis and that it was hard for him to accept the fact that he is going to have to grow up sooner or later. Wolf especially can relate to Holden because he himself went to a school like Pencey Prep and knew what it felt like to have all the guys get bored and start to pick on each other. Wolf also says that every time he reads a different Catcher in the Rye each time. He says as he gets older he feels more and more sorrow for Holden. Savage also agreed with him. She says that Holden was living in a hard time where teen culture hadn’t really been defined just yet. She says that it is really hard to see Holden become an adult. I agree with both of them because when this book was published teen culture hadn’t really rocketed just yet. Reading the book now, it seems as if life today is a lot more like how Holden describes it than it was when it was published. I believe that the Holden Caulfield of my generation would be Taylor Swift. Although she writes music, but in all of her songs she writes about how much of a struggle she had growing up. She didn’t get along with girls at her school, she felt ‘invisible’ and could never get the guy she wanted. I think Holden would be able to relate to a lot more teens today, because it’s more common to go through the things Holden did than it was back then.
2. The part about Trubek’s argument is that because the book is old, we shouldn’t be reading it. I don’t agree with her. She says “He’s part of our common conversation, our cultural literacy.” But if we are still talking about it today, it must have some meaning right? I do believe high schools should still read the book. The book can relate to a lot more teenagers today than I think it could before. The book not only teaches you about teenage life and that your not the only one going through not wanting to grow up, but also about how life was back then. It gives you a taste of how things used to be and how much they have changed today.
1. Both Stephanie Savage and Tobias Wolf have similar opinions about Catcher in the Rye. Tobias can relate to the book more because he has been to a school like Pency Prep and he knows what it is like to go to a school like that. Stephanie believes that Holden is stuck in the middle of becoming an adult and still being a child. I agree with both Savage and Wolf because I believe that it was the first true teen angst book and I think that both of them bring up good concepts. I do not think that the book would be as culturally defining if it was published today because back in the 50’s when it was published adults believed that it encouraged children to rebel against their parents but now that is not such a big deal. Compared to some of the books out today I just don’t think that Catcher in the Rye is as influential today as it was back then.
ReplyDelete2. I think the most convincing part of the argument was “Today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet.” I am somewhat on the fence with if Catcher in the Rye should still be taught in high school because I believe that it should still be taught because it’s so old and it had such a big impact on literature but I also agree with this statement. I agree more with this statement because it doesn’t have the same affect on people as it had back then so it doesn’t mean as much to us therefore I do not think it should be taught in high school.
Lindsay Neal
Period 1
I think that The main points of both Savage and Wolf are that the book was huge and popular.It was the first true teen against comming of age and the book that really showed teenagers culture. I agree with the statement that it was the first true teen book, and i also think it was more culturally defining back then in the 1950 because, back then more people really didnt see teen culture.It was either you are a kid or a grown up so this book really gave voice to teen culture.so I think its not culturally defining as it was back then. Today there are many books about teen against coming of age.so i think catcher in the rye should be putt down and a new catcher in the rye should be putt up that is more significant to todays teen culture.Yes, it was a great book an still is a great book, but for this generation of new teen culture a new book should be found to show the new teen culture on how it is today instead of that book in the 1950's.I really think that the catcher in the rye should not be taught any more because it was made an 1950 and just like J.D. Salinger’s sais ,"novel was edgy and controversial when teachers first put it on their syllabi. But that was 50 years ago. Today, Salinger’s novel lacks the currency or shock value it once had, and has lost some of its critical cachet." it lost what it ment now know really meaning to it since there is now a real teen culture.Really I cant not think of any character or any thing who signafies to me today as are generation as Holden. Holden is a 1 in a million charcter and for me there really is no teen idel or any thing who represents him as 4 me in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteBY:Fidel Barreras
Period:3
1. I agree with the statement because it showed someone that actually said something and stood up about the book. In this day and age there are many other books out there that can be taught the same as Catcher in the Rye but they are just more modern books. And also the more modern books will not bring as much contraverce can be taught in every high school .
ReplyDelete2. I found parts convincing and some not so convincing. I think personally that the book should not be taught anymore in high schools around the United States and I think that if they want to teach something similar like as they said Generation X is the modern day Catcher in the Rye. So if they choose that route then I would be all for it because it is more modern and I think that high school students will be able to relate to it more. On the other side Catcher in the Rye in one of the most recognizable pieces of literature and maybe should be kept in schools because of the morals it teaches and the history behind the book.
Billy Sibley
per. 3
1. Wolf says he remembers reading the book when he was little. He relates to the book alot because he remembers when he was little he went to a school just like Holden did. He says its harder to see Holden grow up to be an adult. He also remeber being in a play when he was little and messing up on his lines because he was reading the book. He also says that Holden after a while ends up thinking everyone is phony.
ReplyDelete2. Anne Trubek says that the book had lost its value it once had it was no longer as important. She also says that it does not appel to everyone like it used to when the book was first taught. I think the book should still be in English class today becasue it could teach you a good lesson. I tottaly dissagree that the book is out of date because this effects teens everyday. The same things Holden deals with could happen to anyone.
Ed Lee period: 3
1) Wolf relates to the book especially when it comes to Pency Prep because he himself went to a school just like that. Tobias Wolf was alive when Catcher in the Rye was written; he was about 6 and read it when he was 15. He feels it is hard to see Holden as an adult. Wolf thinks as you get older and you read the book again you see it differently. Stephanie Savage has a different look on the book; she feels that Holden is stuck in a child’s world rather then moving to adulthood. In the novel she sees Holden as some one coming out alive, not a different person but just that he made it out alive. In the late 1940’s and early 50’s, Savage said that hardly anyone had any idea of a teens life. I believe the novel would not be a bigf deal or a huge problem if it was published today because in the 50s adults believe that it made teens rebel against their parents. Compared to The Catcher and the Rye, a lot of the books focused on teenagers are way worse. I agree both with Wolf and Savage.
ReplyDelete2) Anne Trubek’s article is least convincing when Trubek believes just because the book is old, that the value of the book is not as important as a modern book. The novel should still be taught in high school because a lot of us modern day teens are able to relate to this character. We get to learn what people thought about the book in the 50s and we get to form out our own opinions about if we like it or not, just like many adults have their opinion about the book, and how kids act now days. Although, yes, the book is old there are some ways that I could relate to Holden’s character.
Connor De Jac